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Nature_and_Environment.32

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THE COLLAPSE OF EVOLUTION video download

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.1}: Jason Parker {jasonparker} Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:18:01 CST (6 lines)

you know this subject about we came from monkeys.... what do you
think? did we evolve from monkeys? did everything occured by
evolution? what do you think? According to me, since there is no
example beneficial mutation, natural selection is not a miracle
touch, the occurance of first living organism.... evolution sinks...
http://www.harunyahya.com/m_video_detail.php?api_id=1245

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.2}: Suzanne Griffith {sggriffith} Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:48:24 CST (4 lines)

Perhaps you think that the last word on nature was written thousands
of years ago. I, on the other hand, believe that human knowledge and
understanding is incremental. Evolution is a "theory." The Bible is a
book of legends and myth. I don't see the parallel.

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.3}: Anita Keese {anodekraft} Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:45:13 CST (11 lines)

Jason...I am a total plant nerd...there are 1000's of examples of
beneficial mutations in the plant kingdom that have occured with
doumentation.  I've noted almost a dozen accidental (not my doing)
changes have occured in my own yard.  Of course, it sure is
subjective as to what is benefical or not.

Did you know brussel sprouts, cabbage, broccoli, and cauliflour all
evolved from the same parent?  And the best part is...humans were
instrumental in all this evolutionary development!  Really, I think
people should be aware of this more.  Huge variety on genetics occur
all the time!  It is glorious!

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.4}: Suzanne Griffith {sggriffith} Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:45:58 CST (2 lines)

Anita, I read an essay once suggesting that the grasses had trained
humans to aid in their own evolution.

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.5}: Helge Hafstad {hhaf} Tue, 30 Nov 2004 04:07:12 CST (3 lines)

Probably did - see how dependant we are on grasses! If a general
grass epidemic should strike the world it would be instant famine
on a gigantig scale!

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.6}: Anita Keese {anodekraft} Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:24:09 CST (7 lines)

Oh no!  Grasses have have suffered greatly under human activity.
Here is Texas the grassland species have been desimated because of
human-improved species that over taken the native deep-rooted
species.  Why?  Because the new variaties, some imported, some
genetically engineered, can take the mowing and the compacted soils
and the grazing.  The native grasses are the most delicious to the
goats and cows, so they get eaten first....and to the roots.

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.7}: Helge Hafstad {hhaf} Wed, 01 Dec 2004 14:25:36 CST (2 lines)

Grasses are much more than lawns and grazing. All the cereal food
we eat are for example grasses.

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.8}: Suzanne Griffith {sggriffith} Thu, 02 Dec 2004 01:04:02 CST (2 lines)

Wheat, rice, corn, etc. Grains really dominate the human diet. And
meat animals eat grains, too.

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.9}: Steve {srs} Fri, 03 Dec 2004 22:45:24 CST (7 lines)

One of the things that makes it hard for me to accept evolution is
that why have living things, if they have been evolving all this
time, why have they not evolved out of what would be their most
pressing problem regarding survival; that being death. And if
animals are evolving, I have to think that God built and downloaded
that program into them to help them survive. Just some inarticulate
thoughts I have had on the subject.

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.10}: Suzanne Griffith {sggriffith} Sat, 04 Dec 2004 01:08:35 CST (4 lines)

It's just science. I think science is interesting, not always right,
but useful to categorize things, like insects and rocks. And then they
come up with something brilliant and world-shattering, like ecology or
astrophysics. It's worth supporting.

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.11}: Steve {srs} Sat, 04 Dec 2004 08:03:53 CST (8 lines)

Definetly science is worth supporting Suzanne. I think it brings us
closer to the mind God when we delve into God's creative process. I
also see signs of creationism in the things we can't explain. It is
theoretically impossible for something to be both particle and wave,
but yet that is what light is. God and light; is light. Some
references there to be sure. Aerodynamically the bumble shouldn't be
able to fly, yet it does. A pollinator, a creature that helps spread
life.

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.12}: {11}{srs} {bshmr} Sat, 04 Dec 2004 11:08:52 CST (11 lines)

>{11}{srs}: Aerodynamically the bumble shouldn't be able to fly, yet
it does.
>

Incorrect. At one time, dominant mankind, in one of many vain moments,
stated that their knowledge and awareness was insufficient to explain
the flight of a bumblebee.

By the way, it is exactly the problem with your position -- belief in
superstition, that which is not causally and thoroughly understood,
over the observed simplicity fully aware of ignorance.

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.13}: Suzanne Griffith {sggriffith} Sat, 04 Dec 2004 11:44:16 CST (6 lines)

I'm simply not interested in proving God or not-god. I do think we
should respect the incredible beauty of the universe, and we can
worship it if we want. I like science's idea of studying the processes
of nature, and religion's idea of appreciating these processes. I
don't like to see people in the modern world worshipping a
simple-minded, narrow God who is their buddy.

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.14}: Steve {srs} Sat, 04 Dec 2004 12:26:20 CST (HTML)

"At one time, dominant mankind, in one of many vain moments, stated that their knowledge and awareness was insufficient to explain the flight of a bumblebee." Exactly, it should not be able to fly. Regardless, it points to the wonder of creation and I worship the creator not the creation.

I agree with you Suzanne. I don't like seeing people worship a false god either. Whether it be nature or themselves. To me if we trace everything back to a big bang, we still have the question, who built the bomb and lit the fuse.

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.15}: Suzanne Griffith {sggriffith} Sat, 04 Dec 2004 12:37:11 CST (5 lines)

That's not exactly what I'm saying, Steve, although I'm sympathetic to
your view. I think we have a huge mystery that we exist in, and that
our senses are extremely limited. We don't know what's going on, but
we can choose to admire it, worship it, try to figure it out, express
our perceptions of it, or just live in it as best we can.

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.16}: {14}{srs} {bshmr} Sat, 04 Dec 2004 13:01:55 CST (9 lines)

Whatever. I don't care what you worship only that you can communicate
(in some semblance of English) and are rational.

The knowledge of bumblebee flight, like the 1940's explanation of
curve-balls, has been improved; ignorance reduced. Your response is
outdated at best. Unfortunately comprehension of {12} [ and {13} ]
must be lacking as well.

Good night.

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.17}: Richard Witty {gisland} Sun, 05 Dec 2004 20:02:53 CST (6 lines)

Conquering death, as in "eternal life"?

No need, survival of a species is to get to reproduce, not to survive
oneself.

Do you have a sexual urge?

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.18}: Anita Keese {anodekraft} Mon, 06 Dec 2004 07:54:45 CST (15 lines)

"No need, survival of a species is to get to reproduce, not to survive
oneself."

Yes, and I would add, that all species are programmed to die.  To die
and to go on to nourish other beings.  This is absolutely a critical
part of nature.  And the miracle of evolution (to me) is that it can
allow life to go in in different forms, even when the environment
changes drastically.  You must think of evolution as the continuation
of life itself, not of particular species.  Otherwise, evolution
really isn't going on!

I think it is remarkable to me that we think we can make judgements
about the efficacy of science as if we already have discovered all
there is to know that is knowable.  As if we are even close to being
there.  As if we ever will be.

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.19}: Helge Hafstad {hhaf} Tue, 07 Dec 2004 03:57:20 CST (12 lines)

"Aerodynamically the bumble shouldn't be able to fly, yet it does."

The knowledge gap is no longer. The "mystery" was solved not long
ago and involved micro eddies in the airsteam over the wings.
I.e. it was our knowledge, not the flight of the bumblebee that was
the problem. Such is science, a theory must be either abandoned or
refined in view of observed facts.

On death: If life evolved to the point of indefinite life, then
also birth would be abolished - or you would have an uncontrolled
population increase followed by resource collapse and massive
starvation cycle instead.

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.20}: Suzanne Griffith {sggriffith} Tue, 07 Dec 2004 14:18:41 CST (1 line)

Right. The living eat the dead.

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.21}: Helge Hafstad {hhaf} Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:50:09 CST (2 lines)

In a sense we do, though not (at least not normally) in a direct
form. The same matter is recycled time and time again.

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{Nature_and_Environment.32.22}: Suzanne Griffith {sggriffith} Wed, 08 Dec 2004 17:56:06 CST (3 lines)

That's what I meant, yes. Everything transforms into something else.

Of course, I haven't got it all figured out yet ;-)

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