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Welcomes and Introductions


{Nature_and_Environment.65.41}: Tom Gardner {brrmont} Mon, 10 Apr 2006 03:12:12 CDT (3 lines)

yeah, we just got eight inches on wednesday, and by today it was dried
out -- and warm -- enough to go bouldering on some nice dry rocks
nearby.  i still haven't removed the sand-bags from my vehicle.


{Nature_and_Environment.65.42}: Tom Elliot {telliot} Mon, 10 Apr 2006 04:22:24 CDT (HTML)

You really won't be safe until Independence Day, and even then some years I've seen heavy snow past that.


{Nature_and_Environment.65.43}: Tom Gardner {brrmont} Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:51:16 CDT (7 lines)

Where in Colorado do you live, Tom?  I grew up in Vermont, and so the
San Juans are turning out to truly live up to the dreams and
expectations I carried with me when hiking the Green Mountains.
Colorado sort of seems like Vermont on steroids.  The only real
complaint I have so far is the dry weather.  Bloody noses, dry skin, red
eyes.  I've never lived somewhere where water consumption has been so
important to daily life.


{Nature_and_Environment.65.44}: Tom Elliot {telliot} Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:04:36 CDT (HTML)

We've got a house in Central Colorado, I don't get more specific than that. You'll adapt to the dry weather but one thing to keep in mind is that in the high country if you wait to drink water until you're thirsty it is too late. You lose so much water through evaporation that you don't even notice that you need to keep the water going regularly. It also makes good business for the skin moisturizer industry.


{Nature_and_Environment.65.45}: Kate Miller {redhawk} Tue, 01 Aug 2006 16:30:21 CDT (4 lines)

Hello all, from beautiful SWVa.  I'm new here, and have only recentl
cultivated (pun deliberate) an intest in sustainable living. I'll
admit to being largel ignorant, but willing to learn. Peace be with
you.  Redhawk


{Nature_and_Environment.65.46}: Tom Elliot {telliot} Wed, 02 Aug 2006 18:23:21 CDT (HTML)

Hi Kate, welcome to the Nature and Environment forum. What sort of sustainability interests you?


{Nature_and_Environment.65.47}: Kate Miller {redhawk} Wed, 02 Aug 2006 22:12:09 CDT (4 lines)

In a perfect world, I'd like to be totally self or community
sufficent, but small steps initially, Right now I'm tryng to figure
out how to live acar and chain-store freelife.  But, like I said I'm
just beginning.


{Nature_and_Environment.65.48}: Tom Elliot {telliot} Wed, 02 Aug 2006 23:22:48 CDT (HTML)

Every step taken in the right direction is a good step and helps.


{Nature_and_Environment.65.49}: Mary Moon {mmm} Wed, 09 Aug 2006 16:35:41 CDT (4 lines)

Hullo. I'm new. I run a small horse business in Virginia, live as
greenly as I can, and aspire to do better.



{Nature_and_Environment.65.50}: Tom Elliot {telliot} Wed, 09 Aug 2006 16:43:47 CDT (HTML)

Welcome Mary. What kind of horses do you have or raise?


{Nature_and_Environment.65.51}: Mary Moon {mmm} Wed, 09 Aug 2006 19:20:53 CDT (11 lines)


99% of what we do is cater to a clientele of amateurs. We have mostly
teens/young adults, with their own horses, which we train and take to
horse shows. We have some adults, too.

Fairly often we buy/sell horses for clients, occasionally we take in a
sales horse on spec.

This is my boy.


{Nature_and_Environment.65.52}: Tom Elliot {telliot} Wed, 09 Aug 2006 20:25:18 CDT (HTML)

Beautiful horse, and a great picture.


{Nature_and_Environment.65.53}: JonnieBean {jonniebean} Wed, 03 Oct 2007 12:31:57 CDT (7 lines)


I am a former college biology instructor and have taught environmental
science courses. I have an MA in Biology although I have not worked in
my field for over 20 years. I retain an abiding interest in the
subject and continue to read in the field, especially in the areas of
the environment.


{Nature_and_Environment.65.54}: Dave Allen {raddad} Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:33:01 CDT (12 lines)

Hi JonnieBean! think i *saw* you in another forum...

Me, checkin out other forums and gettin more involved with our local
Mesagreens, Green Party affiliate. also, my daughter found Students
for Sensible Energy and StepItUp,
promoting a national day of global change on Nov. 3rd.

didn't see anything about here, so spread the word! our local events
is here at ASU and Papago Park, so maybe YOUR local university may
have an event.

any other places to check out, both here in the cafe or elsewhere???


{Nature_and_Environment.65.55}: Glenn Allenson {glenn53} Thu, 07 Feb 2008 14:15:38 CST (HTML)

Hello everyone and especially Tom! [I know, Tom, you're thinking uh oh, heee's BBBAAAAA-aaack}.

Glenn Allenson is my name and I'm here for this reason: There is a tank farm in front of my town of Brisbane California. Gasoline, Diesel and Jet fuel are pumped here to roughly 20 tanks, then distributed to various locations including SF Airport [by pipeline and truck] and local gasoline vendors, by truck only.

I will paste some photos and info from Currents, if that is ok.

My needs are these: Turns out the pipelines and tanks are owned by Kinder Morgan, morphed from the Devil himself, Enron. The tanks are leaking profusely into our aquifer, which adjoins San Franciso Bay a scant 300 yards to the east.

But the biggest potential problem is that the tanks themselves, the largest four of which have a capacity of 75,000 barrels - more than 3 million gallons each - are old and are sitting on unconsolidated fill. And they are also within 300 yards of both our fire/rescue station and city corporation yards, which are both within twenty yards of the railroad tracks that pass next to the tank farm.

These tracks are at the same elevation as the bottoms of the tanks, and are seperated from the tanks by a containment berm that is only 5 feet high. The tracks' elevation descends toward the fire station/ corpyard and the entrance to the town and the numerous storm drain openings that let our rainwater drainage into the Bay. The tankfarm elevation is about on the same level - ten feet above sea level - as the lowest section of our town, including the industrial park to our north that houses our city hall, again, a mere few hundred yards from the tanks themselves.

So I am writing some articles that hopefully will alert our folks to the potential disaster.

Anyone want to discuss this? The Kinder Morgan Ghost of Enron has bought up 30,000 miles of pipelines in the US and Canada along with tank farms and other infrastructure. These bastards were among the con-artists attending the closed door Cheney energy meetings, according to information from the Environmental Working Group linked through Corpwatch.

At those meetings, a HUGE portion of public lands were handed over to various Bushco supporters, including mining and Gas Petroleum giants such as Exxon Mobil. We are losing our National Parks and forests to these vermin right now. Even the Grand Canyon now has HUNDREDS of mining claims based upon these land/ resource giveaways.

Gotta go pound nails into parts of trees raped from California's once great redwood and fir trees. bleeagh.

But it is all I can do to pay rent.



{Nature_and_Environment.65.56}: Glenn Allenson {glenn53} Thu, 07 Feb 2008 14:22:06 CST (HTML)

Oh, and I googled History of Gas Storage Tank Explosions, leaks and other keywords. The list is mind boggling.

The Cleveland Ohio natural gas tank explosions of 1944 had the same kinds of dynamics. The sewer /storm drains spread the gas and vapors about one square mile, and just as the spectators returned home, thinking the main tank fire was under control - it was - everything blew up. ""


{Nature_and_Environment.65.57}: {glenn53} Thu, 07 Feb 2008 14:30:20 CST (0 lines)
{erased by glenn53 Thu, 07 Feb 2008 14:31:33 CST}


{Nature_and_Environment.65.58}: Glenn Allenson {glenn53} Thu, 07 Feb 2008 14:32:05 CST (HTML)

Another view of the disaster, with photo.



{Nature_and_Environment.65.59}: Tonu Aun {tonu} Thu, 07 Feb 2008 17:06:55 CST (HTML)

Not to tell you what to you should include Glenn --- it might be useful to start with past failures that aren't oil specific.... we humans FU through complacency. An example you might use to get their attention is the Boston Molasses Flood in 1919. Few know about this so it would have some interest and then you can tie to the oil industry.


{Nature_and_Environment.65.60}: Glenn Allenson {glenn53} Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:45:37 CST (14 lines)

I wrote a 'thank you Tonu' from an internet station two daze ago and
I'm surprised it didn't post, so let me try from this again.

Thanx Tonu, but I gotta say, you've thrown a wrench into the
ol' 'slower than molasses' quip. 35 mph is faster than most folks
can handle, which certainly resulted in a sad end for many of those

Now, can I start a topic for this issue or should I just link to the
posts in currents? The idea I have is to paste the relevant posts in
an order that leaves out the less useful posts, which [no surprise]
are mostly mine.

Hello Tom? I shall email now. Thanx in advance.


{Nature_and_Environment.65.61}: James Files {riverrat} Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:52:27 CST (7 lines)

That relates well to the sugar factory explosion last week.  I haven't
seen any details.  My bet is that it was sugar dust hitting an
ignition source.  (most folks don't think of sugar as being a
flammable hydrocarbon).  I have even heard of folks trying to put out
grease fires by throwing in sugar, with disastrous results.  Water,
flour are also bad news.  Salt does work.


{Nature_and_Environment.65.62}: Glenn Allenson {glenn53} Sun, 10 Feb 2008 15:18:26 CST (10 lines)

Thatdidit. I'm dismantling my gas-powered sugar-molasses and honey
whiskey still right now.

Riv, great news I believe. A meeting has now been scheduled for the
21st of Feb. More on this in currents.

I had not realized this forum was becoming deserted. I'm off to
scout for some enviro-blogs elsewhere.

Back soon. G.


{Nature_and_Environment.65.63}: James Files {riverrat} Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:44:52 CST (8 lines)

Any reason to not just continue what you are doing in Politics and
link to all the other resources?  You "own" that topic, as far as I am
concerned, meaning that you can link to or post anything you like in
there.  I don't go to currents anymore (time issue more than anything
else.  Anything in there that you want me to see, please post a link
in "your" Politics topic.

How did you find out that this topic was being closed?


{Nature_and_Environment.65.64}: Glenn Allenson {glenn53} Sun, 10 Feb 2008 23:03:52 CST (4 lines)

I didn't! I thought this might be a place to find more info, but I
see now it's going out.

I'll stick with the thread at currents, and thanx James!


{Nature_and_Environment.65.65}: James Files {riverrat} Sun, 10 Feb 2008 23:22:05 CST (2 lines)

I see what you are referring to now.  This one is staying.  The other
one is being brought in here as read only.


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