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Welcomes and Introductions


{Nature_and_Environment.2.35}: Kai Hagen {kai} Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:31:19 CST (14 lines)

That might be worth a separate topic!

Glad to see you over here, too, Rich.

> I wear the badge proudly.

I would, too.


And welcome to the forum..and the Cafe, Bruce.

Great typo, by the way!    :-)   We don't have many
houses posting there!


{Nature_and_Environment.2.36}: Marcus {coyote13} Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:08:19 CST (23 lines)

I heard the late cedric price say of schumaker's "Small is
Beautiful", 'what a silly title, especially with the egg on the
jacket. Don't you realise an egg is the biggest thing that a hen can
lay. Appropiate size is best, or something like that would be better'.

He was bril - cf archigram etc

not much of his physical work around but you might know the aviery at
london zoo

the other main point of the talk was - "if you can't be original,
copy something good" - excellent advice to the universe

the third point was that you can only make three points in a lecture,
people cant take in any more. v. amusing with his old cigar.

'Calculated slack' in design might have been the third, but I may
have read that somewhere

thanks for the welcome, Kai.


{Nature_and_Environment.2.37}: Roan Carratu {worldmind} Thu, 03 Jun 2004 03:53:26 CDT (16 lines)

Hi. I'm this intense radical dude who is likely to stir things up
here and have already in a few other topics. I'm 55, handicapped, a
vet, and a comprehensive generalist. I have traveled a lot, lived and
participated in a lot of subcultures, worked at a multitude of
different occupations, studied my whole life through experience
rather than academia, and I'm considered a bit of a pain in the ass
by many.

Frankly, I don't accept anything as true unless I have a set of
experiences which support something as True. Everything else goes
onto a true/false scale, starting at 50% and going up and down
according to what other info I get on the subject. I don't go by the
intellectually dishonest "truism" that "I think, therefore I am." I
go by the observable truism that "What is, IS".

For more info, check out my profile.


{Nature_and_Environment.2.38}: Suzanne Griffith {sggriffith} Thu, 03 Jun 2004 11:40:57 CDT (1 line)



{Nature_and_Environment.2.39}: Patty Kemp {sylviad} Thu, 08 Jul 2004 14:18:05 CDT (7 lines)

Hi.  I'm new to the Cafe, love camping and hiking, wish I lived in a
cabin in the woods, but actually live in semi-rural suburban
sprawl, like I imagine most of us do.  Anyway, it's time for me to
get a new car, and I want a relatively green one.  Any thoughts on
the new hybrids, future of the hydrogen/ocygen battery, or
recommendations on what's already out there?  (has to have
better clearance than the Prius, to drive to trailheads)


{Nature_and_Environment.2.40}: Tom Elliot {telliot} Thu, 08 Jul 2004 20:50:54 CDT (HTML)

Hi Patty, welcome to the Environment forum. I'd check the hybrids carefully as the labeled mileage is not always the actual mileage, their mileage can vary more because of the way they are driven than standard IC cars. The new Toyota is supposed to be a vast improvement over the earlier model, though I don't know much about them. Maybe someone else here can help you out with some more specifics.

I don't know what you mean about hydrogen/oxygen battery, unless you are talking about a fuel cell car and it will be a long time before they are available, if ever.


{Nature_and_Environment.2.41}: Kai Hagen {kai} Fri, 09 Jul 2004 09:32:57 CDT (HTML)

Welcome Roan and Patty!

We have a Honda Civic hybrid, Patty. We love it. Don't know if it offers any more clearance than the Prius, though.


{Nature_and_Environment.2.42}: Patty Kemp {sylviad} Mon, 12 Jul 2004 00:50:50 CDT (7 lines)

Seems like a lot of the new hybrids, such as Ford Ecape, Saturn
Vue, are taking a long time to debut, and with very little prepress.
Makes me wonder what's going on behind the scenes.
Hopefully the fuel crisis will inspire new interest.  Aren't the
hydrogen/oxygen (fuel cell?) cars being tested by some
universities now? OK, how about french fry grease as the new


{Nature_and_Environment.2.43}: Tom Elliot {telliot} Mon, 12 Jul 2004 01:13:40 CDT (HTML)

Hydrogen (i.e. fuel cell) cars are a long long way from production and won't ever really be practical, IMO. Biodiesel is available now, more easily in some places than others, and will work in any diesel vehicle or engine.


{Nature_and_Environment.2.44}: Phil Gore {zzdormouse} Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:52:11 CDT (2 lines)

I wasn't sure which forum to post this in.  {Nature.13.47} tells the
story of this summer's clearcut in the state forest I live in.


{Nature_and_Environment.2.45}: Richard Witty {gisland} Sat, 21 Aug 2004 08:18:54 CDT (5 lines)

Biodiesel though is not a social alternative, as there just isn't
enough french fry oil waste (or similar), to supply even more than a
small minority of vehicles.

Its "cool", is all.


{Nature_and_Environment.2.46}: Tom Elliot {telliot} Sat, 21 Aug 2004 08:28:28 CDT (HTML)

Biodiesel can be made from just about anything, not just fryer oil, so focusing only on that is disengenuous.

Any vegatable oil source can provide biodiesel.


{Nature_and_Environment.2.47}: Richard Witty {gisland} Sat, 21 Aug 2004 15:23:35 CDT (20 lines)

The supply of that oil is finite, and/or expensive.

One reason that corn-based ethanol is not the dominant fuel of modern
America is its inflationary effect on food and feed costs.

It could fuel a portion of transportation demand, but only a minor

I know you live off the grid, and in the boonies.

I believe that the vast majority of social energy utilization
improvements possible are SOCIAL ones, not of individual choices

So, if you seek to decrease American dependance on oil as a goal, or
global CO2 emissions as a goal, that's where to look. All three
(individual choices, cooperation, intentional social design:
technology, utilization, social design).


{Nature_and_Environment.2.48}: Phil Gore {zzdormouse} Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:39:00 CDT (3 lines)

Guess these guys must have me on filter.  But if anybody else is
interested is where you can
find details and links (both pro & con) re:  the Mohican clearcut.


{Nature_and_Environment.2.49}: Phil Gore {zzdormouse} Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:41:55 CDT (1 line)

And, again, {Nature.13.47} is what I said about the situation, fyi.


{Nature_and_Environment.2.50}: LINDA SAFLEY {earthling2} Sat, 28 Aug 2004 11:18:32 CDT (5 lines)



{Nature_and_Environment.2.51}: Tom Elliot {telliot} Sat, 28 Aug 2004 11:28:38 CDT (HTML)

Hello Linda, welcome to the Environment forum. I'll be interested to hear what you are doing with sustainable energy issues in Baltimore.

One suggestion, please turn off your caps lock key, posting on the internet in all capital letters is the equivalent of shouting and is considered rude (though I know you don't mean to be). Your message will get a better hearing if you disable the caps lock.


{Nature_and_Environment.2.52}: Don Mady {don69} Wed, 01 Sep 2004 10:41:21 CDT (22 lines)

Hi, I am new to the café and to posting. I was reading the article
Hydrogen or Biofuels?
This article really stirs me up and I would like to vent a few points
Now I do not claim to have all the answers, and I am not a scientist
nor do I play one on TV.
But I do know a couple of things to start with Ethanol is not a
renewable resource that people claim that it is. Corn really has its
1)*Corn is not a no-till crop which by its planting alone wastes
our precious farm land to erosion.
2)*Corn requires a lot of herbicides & pesticides to grow a good
crop (how healthy is this to our environment).
3)*Corn needs irrigation using up our water supplies (the
Colorado is looking pretty dry what’s next the great lakes?).
4)*Corn is also a subsidized crop, who knows what it really
costs to grow, (would you rather have your tax dollars spent on
I am sure there are problems with all alternative fuels but these are
a few points that nobody gives any consideration to when they talk
about how good Ethanol is.
Thanks for letting me vent


{Nature_and_Environment.2.53}: Tom Elliot {telliot} Wed, 01 Sep 2004 13:26:50 CDT (HTML)

Corn is not the only source of ethanol.


{Nature_and_Environment.2.54}: Don Mady {don69} Thu, 02 Sep 2004 00:42:11 CDT (10 lines)

This is true, but the real point is the use of agricultural lands for
crops other than for food. Our soils are being depleted quickly from
over farming and a lot of prime land is being absorbed by urban

Soils take thousands of years to develop and without proper respect
we will be fighting for top soil like we fight for oil

So to some it up, ethanol is as much a renewable resource as are our


{Nature_and_Environment.2.55}: {geniejessup} Fri, 03 Sep 2004 08:41:25 CDT (0 lines)
{erased by geniejessup Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:01:33 CDT}


{Nature_and_Environment.2.56}: Kim Stoner {kimbuglady} Tue, 07 Sep 2004 22:19:37 CDT (17 lines)

Hi, I came into this forum thinking it was for introductions, but
there seems to be an ongoing discussion of the merits of ethanol.  I
happen to have read an article in Physics Today that makes a very
relevant point.  In general, more energy is used in producing the
crops made into ethanol, transporting them to ethanol plants, and in
the chemical processing to ethanol than is actually produced.  So,
subsidizing ethanol may keep farmers in business, but it actually
consumes more energy than it produces.  In addition, as the original
poster pointed out, there is a cost in pesticide use, soil erosion,

Now for the introduction.  I am an entomologist, and I work with
organic farmers and landscapers on developing alternatives to
insecticides for managing insects.  I wish I could say that all of
the food I eat is organic and produced within 100 miles of my home --
I work toward that goal, but haven't reached it.  I admire your


{Nature_and_Environment.2.57}: Don Mady {don69} Tue, 07 Sep 2004 22:31:18 CDT (21 lines)

Oh what a tangled web we weave!
Ones concerns about the miss labeling of ethanol as a renewable
resource and concerns about the miss use of are soils has morphed
into the “demonizing the farmer” not sure where that comes from. Need
an argument about “subsidies” I wish my daddy’s business had the warm
fuzzies that the family farm has, but the rest of the small business
owners in this country are forced to fend for them selves against the
Wal-Mart’s and the large companies in the world.
I don’t recall saying that I was against “chemical farming” I was
noting that corn was one of the higher uses of fertilizers and
pesticides. Personally I wish they would all go organic and I hope
that this movement continues to gain force. I commend you for your
diligence in being environmentally conscious.
FYI, I come from western NY where there are a lot small farmers that
I have worked with for most of my life. I grow much of our own
produce and utilize local farmers and merchants for my personal and
business use, and I buy free-range meats as much as possible.

I just believe that we should question the use ethanol and all the
monies being dumped that way. There are many other alternative energy
sources that need funding for research and development.


{Nature_and_Environment.2.58}: Jim Beemer {aerialraven} Sat, 10 Sep 2005 21:08:59 CDT (10 lines)

Just stopping in to introduce myself.  I am a natural resources
manager of 16,000 acres of federal land and am also a certified
wildlife biologist.  Have done some traveling (Tasmania, the Great
Barrier Reef, Melbourne, Scotland, Germany, Italy, Canada, 43 of the
US States).  Tazzy is an AWESOME place and would recommend it to
anyone who enjoys natural beauty - one third of the island (size of
West Virginia) is wilderness.

This is my first time ever visiting an on-line forum.  I seek truth
from life and encourage goodness in fellow humans whenever possible.


{Nature_and_Environment.2.59}: E Lakin {elakin} Fri, 12 May 2006 06:36:54 CDT (11 lines)

hey everyone!

we are starting to get serious about dividing up the workload and making
some decisions about the cookbook.

anyone who's interested in participating in this process should read
and/or post in {Volunteer!.Cookbook.2.1-}.

make your thoughts known and volunteer!  we could use your help!

thanks, and hope to see you there.


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