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Fuel efficiency


{Wheels.16.1}: Glen Marks {wotan} Fri, 08 Oct 2004 19:06:10 CDT (5 lines)

Japanese cars top the list:



{Wheels.16.2}: Michael Cerkowski {michael33} Sat, 09 Oct 2004 03:24:21 CDT (3 lines)

   Jil, how about moving the Bot's posting to topic #14? He's not
trying to start a discussion, and this will just stand here waving in
the breeze if left by itself.


{Wheels.16.3}: Jil {rabbit} Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:55:12 CDT (1 line)

It's over there as well.


{Wheels.16.4}: Thanks. {michael33} Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:07:21 CDT (0 lines)


{Wheels.16.5}: Glen Marks {wotan} Sat, 16 Oct 2004 21:24:15 CDT (3 lines)

Small cars, big mileage:


{Wheels.16.6}: Glen Marks {wotan} Tue, 30 Nov 2004 19:54:39 CST (2 lines)

Concerning current gas prices on a state-by-state basis, is there
anyplace on the internet where this is listed?


{Wheels.16.7}: Glen Marks {wotan} Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:07:01 CST (1 line)

I'd be curious to know in which 5 states is gas most expensive.


{Wheels.16.8}: 99 Saturn SW {kitty} Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:35:32 CST (1 line)


{Wheels.16.9}: Glen Marks {wotan} Fri, 03 Dec 2004 15:49:38 CST (1 line)

Thank you for your quick and informative reply.


{Wheels.16.10}: Joseph Kang {jsk} Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:10:44 CST (23 lines)

Interesting fuel efficiency and CO2 output comparison between a
gasoline, hybrid, and diesel (not avail. in US) Honda Accord.

Comparing Accords: Diesel, Hybrid and Gasoline

After posting about the Honda clean diesel ad (earlier post), I
decided to do some quick  side-by-side comparisons using three models
of the Honda Accord: the Accord Diesel featuring the new, clean 2.2
i-CTDi engine touted in the ad (picture at right), the new Accord
Hybrid, and two gasoline sedans. The outcome: the Accord Diesel (using
petroleum diesel) offers the lowest fuel consumption and the lowest
CO2 emissions, even surpassing the Accord Hybrid.

In a sense, it’s not a fair comparison—the cars, even though they are
of the same model family, target different consumers with different
levels of performance and features. (Furthermore, the diesel isn’t
offered in the US.) Honda opted to create a performance hybrid with
its Accord, thereby somewhat reducing the fuel consumption and CO2
emissions benefits. Had the company implemented its IMA hybrid drive
with a smaller, more efficient gasoline engine, the results would be
much better.


{Wheels.16.11}: Michael Cerkowski {michael33} Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:41:04 CST (2 lines)

   Yes, as I said, they should have gone with a retuned V-TEC four and
gotten about 160HP and 45+mpg.


{Wheels.16.12}: just me {digem} Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:43:57 CST (6 lines)

They'll probably make a lower scale version with less power and better
fuel efficiency.  This one has 250? hp, heated leather seats, a
navigation system and other assorted bells and whistles.

It's pointed directed at a certain segment of car buyers...those that
want luxury, power and a modicum (some would say appearance) of "green".


{Wheels.16.13}: Joseph Kang {jsk} Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:09:57 CST (22 lines)

Some ominous news about smart (from

Schrempp: Smart Could Go "Kaput"

In what amounts to a near "kiss of death," DaimlerChrysler CEO Juergen
Schrempp told analysts that the Smart minicar brand "could be
expunged." The remark, made before a small group of analysts in
Munich, Germany, and reported by Automotive News Europe, all but
refutes pro-Smart continuity statements by Smart CEO Ulrich Walker and
Mercedes-Benz car group CEO Eckhard Cordes. "We are known for
unpopular decisions," Schrempp told analysts, adding that no certain
forward course lies ahead for the mini-compact brand. Smart has gone
on sale in Canada, but its U.S. launch of a newly developed ForMore
SUV has been delayed beyond a September, 2006 target date.

In the U.S., nearly 80 Mercedes dealers have signed up for the Smart
franchise. Smart's mini-compact models which launched the brand in
1998, the ForTwo and For Four, are not deemed large enough for U.S.
tastes, as contrasted with the larger ForMore. Schrempp said a
decision on Smart's future will be disclosed by the end of April. It
could come as early as April 6, say insiders, when DaimlerChrysler's
annual shareholders meeting takes place in Berlin. - Mac Gordon


{Wheels.16.14}: Jil {rabbit} Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:22:25 CST (24 lines)

It's a shame, because they're great little cars. But the brand has
never made any money. They're too quirky for the US (at least, so
Mercedes thinks, although I believe they could be a go in large
cities), and they face too much micro-car competition in Europe.

They've sold all they've allocated here in Canada (there are three
in my area) but I think they'll flatten out fairly quickly. They're
indeed a niche market.

It's a damn shame. They're fun, funky, the roadster is beyond-way-
cool and they are perfect for the city. When I drove one for a week
I had all kinds of small-delivery guys (pizza, flowers, courier)
asking about them. Take out the passenger seat and you've got the
perfect city delivery vehicle.

Unfortunately it's not enough to make a business case.

They're also very love-or-hate-it, and frankly, I was very surprised
at how vicious some big-car and big-SUV people got when they looked
at the car. I had people look it over and then sneer and say, "Well,
it's no good if you have two children."

My response was always, "That's like saying a pencil has no value
because you can't use it to send e-mail."


{Wheels.16.15}: Joseph Kang {jsk} Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:26:45 CST (4 lines)

It probably doesn't help smart's case that they were developing a
whole new model for their US introduction (the formore).  It's
probably a pricey enough endeavor to bring a new marque to a new
market.  But, to also add in the cost of a new model to it...


{Wheels.16.16}: Jil {rabbit} Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:30:55 CST (3 lines)

I'm not sure if the vehicle was already available in Europe or not.
I know they had some kind of a carry-all which might have been the
basis for it.


{Wheels.16.17}: Michael Cerkowski {michael33} Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:37:38 CST (3 lines)

   They should have launched the existing model here in LA and NYC and
a few other large, congested cities. I don't think they really wanted
it to do well.


{Wheels.16.18}: Jil {rabbit} Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:15:20 CST (9 lines)

It's an expensive proposition and I can see them wanting to make
sure they got it exactly right. Mercedes has spent a ton of money
just in setting up the showrooms, bringing in the parts and training
technicians and sales.

It's one of the reasons we don't get Scion in Canada -- Toyota won't
spend the money because they don't think they'll sell enough to
offset it. It's extremely expensive to bring a new brand into a


{Wheels.16.19}: Daniel Hagerty {bigdaddy} Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:34:58 CST (2 lines)

Yeah, it is.  But it's still a shame.  I would have seriously looked
at buying one.  I adore small, zippy little cars.


{Wheels.16.20}: Jil {rabbit} Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:44:21 CST (3 lines)

They're just great little things. I took mine all over and whenever
someone came by and remarked that they were too small, I let them
sit inside. Guys over six feet were comfortable.


{Wheels.16.21}: Daniel Hagerty {bigdaddy} Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:48:39 CST (9 lines)

Reading your review of it, Jil, and that bit about guys over 6 feet
being comfortable, is what got me excited.  Because I am amazed at how
many mid- and full-size cars have cramped interiors that make me feel
like screaming, yet my 2-door 89 Dodge Colt can fit me, my 6' 6"
friend, both my kids and an entire trip's worth of groceries.

I remember the CRX also being insanely roomy inside.

Hearing that the Smarts were roomy made me happy.


{Wheels.16.22}: Jil {rabbit} Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:04:13 CST (2 lines)

They're very upright and the floorboard is positioned in such a way
that you have considerable headroom.


{Wheels.16.23}: Michael Cerkowski {michael33} Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:24:59 CST (3 lines)

   Since it would have been sold through existing dealers, they could
have done it economically, especially with a limited launch as I
suggested. Shame Suzuki doesn't make the Sprint anymore...


{Wheels.16.24}: Daniel Hagerty {bigdaddy} Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:05:16 CST (7 lines)

> they could have done it economically

But what about marketing costs?

I don't think the physical handling of the cars and sales is the
biggest's the hype machine.  It wouldn't make sense to
ship in a brand no one knows about.


{Wheels.16.25}: Michael Cerkowski {michael33} Tue, 22 Mar 2005 18:39:41 CST (4 lines)

   Again, they could start in NYC, LA and similar cities, and
advertise it through cable TV. Huge ad budgets are mainly required to
sell Crap. Remember the EV-1? They tried to keep the cars a damned
*secret*, and still weren't able to meet demand. So they killed it.


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