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Buying new car

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{Wheels.26.150}: Bianca R. {lily1} Thu, 26 Apr 2018 19:29:21 CDT (2 lines)

Eh, more of an inconvenience.  I love my Homelink.  Once it's programmed,
that is.

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{Wheels.26.151}: '89 Mazda 323, New Van? {patrice} Sun, 18 Nov 2018 20:49:38 CST (58 lines)

I am supposed to have a 2019 Ford Transit Connect Cargo XL trim
delivered to me tomorrow and I do not feel prepared.  It all
happened so fast at the dealership Thursday night, it seemed.  I
have never seen the van, and I had to pull teeth to get them to
bring me a 2016 Connect Wagon (passenger model, seats and more glass
than I want) from a lot 2.5 hours away.  (The lot I was at is
already 1.5 hours from me)

I am worried about the 3rd party extended warranties from NAE NWAN
they are pushing -- can I get extended warranty later, as the Ford
stuff expires?

Also, what if the tires are crap?  I am in a rugged, hilly area with
ice and snow.  The van they found me that ticked most boxes is
coming from the coast/Seattle area 7 hours away.

(I cannot drive that far to shop in a Mazda with no cruise control
due to increasing rt hip/leg problems --thus the push to get a
reliable rig after the 94 Aerostar blew a manifold intake gasket
that is not worth repairing--for me--for many reasons I won't go
into.)

In the 32 years I have been driving I have always had Les Schwab
tires.  They have always done right by me, and I trusted the local
shop when I moved from the city (Portland) to this eastern WA
boondock and they said I needed tires with more sidewall strength
out here, not "city tires".  Now I am about to get a rig delivered
to my house tomorrow that has "16 inch steel rims" --that's all they
know about the tires.

I have never bought a new vehicle.  Do I get my own tires and give
them back theirs?  Can I ask the bank to add a second set of rims,
winter tires, and potentially replacement tires for the stock Ford
things?  Should Ford take the tires off my price?  or is this all my
problem?  I have never had to deal with an nwarrantied flat, but
people are telling me that Ford'd bumper to bumper doesn't cover
tires.

This is stressful.  Sure, I can ask questions when bank, dealership,
and tire store open tomorrow, but I don't know when I am being BS'd
by dealership

And should I take it for a pre-purchase inspection?  I always did
with used, but what if I "take possession" and then find out it is
leaking something only after months of it and something stops
functioning? I am physically incapable of getting down and looking
under the rig.  I live on rough roads--how would I know a bearing or
shock or tire rim isn't right without technician testing (seriously,
my Mazda shocks are shot again and I only notice it after they
change my summer/winter tires and notice and replace and then things
feel smoother, but these roads are shit, who feels small problems?)

I feel sick.  It's all too expensive to me to eff up on this--no
backup money or plan if I get a lemon.  I should have done more
research but I am in physical pain driving the Mazda and didn't plan
on the last van dying with a week before snows start....

Advice?

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{Wheels.26.152}: Ford F150 {fvehafric} Sun, 18 Nov 2018 22:15:33 CST (23 lines)

New cars always make me a little queasy. Third party warranties are
generally a losing proposition. I'm on my second new f150 and have had
zero mechanical problems in a total of about 200,000 miles between the
two of them. That's said I have gotten and continue to get offers from
companies offering extended warranty insurance, four years after I
bought the vehicle.

Your stock tires should be ok even on dirt roads and logging roads IF
- you keep your speed reasonable and don't hit any big rocks. I have
blown out stock tires on a big chunk of obsidian. I kept mine and they
worked out fine till natural wear caused me to replace them, and then
I did go to an extra ply all weather tread on all four wheels. I fyou
want to do that, expect to spend a thousand dollars. I do a lot of
fishing, and hence, driving on really crap roads.

As far as changing/exchanging/getting extra tires/rims I have no idea
if a dealership would do that. Les Schawb will buy your stock tires
from you, but you will get dimes on the dollar in value. You can
probably find rims in a junk yard at really reasonable prices if you
want to keep an extra pair with winter treads on them.

I'd roll with the stock tires and get AAA and let them come and change
any flats for you.

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{Wheels.26.153}: '85 VW Vanagon; '89 Mazda 323 {patrice} Sun, 18 Nov 2018 22:33:01 CST (16 lines)

Well, might be time for AAA, but you have to remember I live miles
outside the areas they go, so there are surcharges...I live in the
sort of place you go fishing ;-p  If the flat happened in town or at
home I'd be fine, but if it happens halfway home in 10F at night it
could be the next day before someone drove by to help, and cell
phones don't work here.

What I am hearing is "stock tires can't be negotiated at dealer, so
you will be buying replacements from someone-not-Ford, out of pocket
(not in with your loan) and eating the stock ones."

And I had figured it would be a grand for a set of studded winter
tires, and $100 per rim.

So, no pre-purchase mechanic visit on a new rig?  I take possession
sight unseen?  That's normal?

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{Wheels.26.154}: Bianca R. {lily1} Sun, 18 Nov 2018 22:55:41 CST (11 lines)

No, don't take.possession sight-unseen.  Take it for a test drive
before signing paperwork.  The dealer should be able to tell you
exactly what tires come on it.  Then look them up on Tirerack or
someplace similar and see what the reviews say.  Probably they will be
fine.  Likely will be all-weather.  If you want to buy dedicated snow
tires for winter, that's on you.

How long is the Ford warranty on new cars?  You are right that Ford
itself won't have a warranty on the tires, but the tire manufacturer
itself will cover them.  You should receive a copy of that warranty
with all the paperwork when you get the car.

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{Wheels.26.155}: '85 VW Vanagon; '89 Mazda 323 {patrice} Sun, 18 Nov 2018 23:46:57 CST (27 lines)

Frank, might be time for AAA, but you have to remember I live miles
outside the areas they go, so there are surcharges...I live in the
sort of place you go fishing ;-p  If the flat happened in town or at
home I'd be fine, but if it happens halfway home in 10F at night it
could be the next day before someone drove by to help, and cell
phones don't work here.

What I am hearing is "stock tires can't be negotiated at dealer, so
you will be buying replacements from someone-not-Ford, out of pocket
(not in with your loan) and eating the stock ones."

And I had figured it would be a grand for a set of studded winter
tires, and $100 per rim.

So, no pre-purchase mechanic visit on a new rig?  I take possession
sight unseen?  That's normal?
---------------------
Bianca slipped in as I was typing.

The reason they were planning to deliver was because I had test
driven a similar van they brought in from a couple hours away on
Thursday.  I then bought and signed the paperwork for a van not on
their lot -- they had to send a couple guys to Seattle (6 hours
away), and I have allergies and mobility issues that prevent me from
going to town to them (1.5 hour drive away) so delivery seemed like
a favor Thursday night as I was signing the paperwork with a huge
migraine happening from the air fresheners in the dealership

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{Wheels.26.156}: '85 VW Vanagon; '89 Mazda 323 {patrice} Mon, 19 Nov 2018 00:15:12 CST (39 lines)

What you might not realize, if you don't know me, is that me driving
the new rig home an hour and a half with new car smell could render
me unfit to drive.  The van, even though it is a stripped down
cargo,  will need to outgas for awhile before I can drive. There's
new front row upholstery and dash and headline in front to stink.
:-/

I know the Bumper to Bumper is 3 years and the powertrain is 5, but
then the dealer does a lifetime powertrain (I don't pay for it,
except in their fees and commissions, I guess) thr NAE NWAN, who
have some questionable comments on the BBB website, and a 'meh'
rating on Consumer Reports. (and I go by years, not miles because I
will put 3K a year on)

As for warranty, I just found this, which explains stuff better than
the brochure they gave me at dealer or the Ford website.  Doncha
wish I'd seen this earlier? ;-)
https://www.carchex.com/content/ford-warranty

Seems there is tire warranty

"Unlike many other manufacturer warranties, the Ford New Vehicle
Limited Warranty also covers defected tires up to 36,000 miles. How
much you pay to replace your tires is determined by how many miles
you’ve driven:

1-12,000 miles: Ford covers 100% of the parts
12,001-24,000 miles: Ford covers 60% of the parts
21,001-36,000: Ford covers 30% of the parts"

hm.  I have emailed the dealer and asked him some tire questions
(make, model, warranty, cost of rims the Ford) and asked him to hold
off delivery can figure out winter tires.  I will also be calling my
credit union loan dept and asking about adding third party extended
warranty to my loan at a later date (that's the selling point with
dealer--they put a 100k mile/no time limit warranty--for me that is
my lifetime-- for things not in the power train one into your loan--
it's close to $3k so in the loan would be better for me...but there
are other companies that will take monthly payments later....)

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{Wheels.26.157}: '89 Mazda 323 {patrice} Mon, 19 Nov 2018 00:17:22 CST (2 lines)

"Defected" tires...so if my tires flee the country and seek asylum
elsewhere, Ford covers?

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{Wheels.26.158}: Jil {rabbit} Mon, 19 Nov 2018 07:53:21 CST (35 lines)

My two cents:

- Don't buy a third-party warranty. They're a pain in the ass and
definitely not worth the money. The van will come with a factory
warranty. I have never heard of a "lifetime powertrain" warranty.
Exactly what does it mean?

- You do not need a pre-purchase inspection. You can give it a
test-drive before accepting it but if you've already driven a Transit
Connect as you said, there's really no need for it. A pre-purchase
inspection is for used vehicles to determine any problems simply
because it is used. This van is brand-new. Your factory warranty
covers any issues that may arise with the van.

- You will be fine with the factory tires. They will be all-season
(likely not all-weather as Bianca mentioned). I'd suggest buying a set
of winter tires and then swapping them back and forth as usual. Run
the factory tires (during the appropriate season) until they wear out,
and then replace them at your preferred tire shop.

- The dealer will not switch out the tires and take them off your
purchase. The van is sold with the factory tires. Anything you buy or
trade, tire-wise, is a separate deal.

- Ford reconfigured its websites and they're garbage, even the media
one. It just shows wheel sizes, not tires. Going from memory, I think
they're passenger-vehicle tires, not light truck. But either way,
you'll be fine.

- You don't need AAA, not yet. Your van will come with roadside
warranty coverage. If there's a problem, Ford sends someone to look
after you. There will be a brochure in the paperwork explaining the
terms and who to call.

I really like the Transit Connect. I think you'll be happy with it.

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{Wheels.26.159}: Jil {rabbit} Mon, 19 Nov 2018 08:06:39 CST (16 lines)

As far as extended warranty goes, Ford offers its own plans. If you're
thinking of getting one, buy the factory one, not a third-party plan.
I can't say enough bad things about third-party warranties...

That said, no one would offer them if they weren't a cash cow for the
company. Your factory powertrain is five years or 60,000 miles (your
specific warranty is here
"http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/Catalog/owner_information/2019-Ford-Car-Truck-Warranty-version-2_frdwa_EN-US_09_2018.pdf"

I know you go more by years than mileage, but how much is the plan?
You may be better off putting some money aside in case you do need
repairs after the 5/60 is up. Then, if nothing goes wrong, that cash
is still in your pocket.

Here's a story I wrote a while back on extended warranties:
"https://www.wheels.ca/news/warranties-little-homework-goes-a-long-way/"

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{Wheels.26.160}: Jil {rabbit} Mon, 19 Nov 2018 08:11:09 CST (10 lines)

I should think of all these things before I post...

One big deal with an extended warranty plan is knowing when it starts.
I haven't worked in a dealership for decades so things might have
changed a bit, but I saw plans sold that took effect the day they were
purchased. That meant that from day one, the vehicle was covered both
by its no-charge factory warranty, and by one that the customer had
purchased. By the time the factory warranty expired and the extended
warranty kicked in, half of the extended warranty was already gone,
but someone had paid for that period.

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{Wheels.26.161}: {patrice} Mon, 19 Nov 2018 17:59:51 CST (0 lines)
{erased by patrice Mon, 19 Nov 2018 18:05:28 CST}

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{Wheels.26.162}: 89 Mazda 323, 19 Ford T.Connect {patrice} Mon, 19 Nov 2018 18:13:56 CST (54 lines)

Jil, thanks for weighing in.  I am feeling much better
about the purchse today after reading your commennts and
finally getting a call back from a friend who works in
auto insurance and has bought a few new rigs in her time-
-
she said the same thing you did about extended
warranties.

I wasn't chomping at the bit for one, I just wanted to be
sure I wasn't being foolish by 'self insuring' (putting
aside money over the first few years for a rainy/breaky
day). If you and my friend don't get extended 3rd party
service contracts when you buy then I have done due
diligence on the issue.

I will be paying extra on my auto insurance to get $0
deductible on comprehensive and $100 deductible on my
collision-- it is $168 more per year over $1k/ $1k high
deductibles, and it is easier for me to budget that
annually than to cough up $500+ for a new windshield
right when needed.

And, my friend (who works for a different company) said
my Hartford insurance (i have been with for 9 years since
I became AARP eligible) gets good marks, so that was
reassuring, as well.

You both say no pre purchase trip to mechanic is needed,
so phew! I didn't think so but what do I know I've never
bought a new vehicle....

I have Federal brand Himalaya WS2 studded tires and rims
coming into the local Les Schwab tire center tomorrow
afternoon, so the dealer will now be delivering my van
and meeting me in the tire center parking lot Wednesday
morning at 10am. They sound in a hurry, so I will let
them go, but I will take the van kn a ride up an empty
stretch of highway and make somes zooms and hard (ish)
stops to check feel/noise/alignment/handling *before* I
put studded tires on it.

Then I will get my new tires switched on, leave my old
hatchback with them for the new shocks it needs, and
drive my new rig home up the already icy hill with
confidence, and a warm glow.

The T.Connect ticks a lot of boxes for me that even more
expensive rigs do not.  I am pretty excited yo have a van
that promises to make my life easier. I don't have it
yet, but I am changing my tag line already in this forum
;-p

Thanks, Frank, Bianca, and Jil for helping me with my
post purchase anxiety and knowledge gaps.

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{Wheels.26.163}: Jil {rabbit} Mon, 19 Nov 2018 18:31:03 CST (35 lines)

<<You both say no pre purchase trip to mechanic is needed,
so phew! I didn't think so but what do I know I've never
bought a new vehicle....<<

The dealership does a pre-delivery inspection (PDI) and charges you
for it, but it's not the same thing as a used vehicle inspection. The
technician will take off the factory wrappings, put on any loose items
(things like hubcaps, floor mats, and the antenna are shipped inside
the vehicle), clean it up, put some fuel in it, and take it for a road
test.

The big issue with third-party warranties is that no shop is required
to accept them up front. If you buy one from Ford, then any authorized
Ford dealer has to do the work and not charge you for it (other than a
deductible).

Some shops do accept third-party, but if they don't, you have to pay
for the repair and then wait to be reimbursed.

The other thing is that every repair cuts into the company's profit,
and so they don't want to put out a penny more than necessary. When I
worked at the dealership (I did warranty administration) I'd see
third-party companies that would pay for the engine repair, but then
refuse to cover the oil that went back into it. We had one turn down a
major engine repair because the owner was 26 kilometres -- 16 miles!
-- over his recommended oil change.

Some of them also charge the deductible per repair, not per visit. One
woman brought in her car for three repairs, figuring she'd pay $100.
Because the third-party company considered each one separately, she
owed $300.

Let me know what you think of your van! I haven't been in one for a
while...
"https://www.thestar.com/autos/2014/12/29/cute_ford_truck_has_added_more_ute.html"

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{Wheels.26.164}: Jil {rabbit} Mon, 19 Nov 2018 19:25:31 CST (4 lines)

I want to add, Patrice, that this is also good for me as well as for
you. I know all this stuff and sometimes take it for granted that
other people do. Realizing what people don't understand, or find
intimidating, helps me to write my stories so they can better explain it.

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{Wheels.26.165}: '89 Mazda 323, 19 Ford.Connect {patrice} Mon, 19 Nov 2018 22:45:16 CST (28 lines)

Jil, It isneasy for me to understand the drawbacks of the
3rd party warranty--I am naturally suspicious of how
their profits might override my service.

(And the dealers make something off flogging this or that
company' packages.the "Forever Powertrain Warranty" i
will receive is bestowed by the specific dealership I
used, and it is not Ford--it isbthe NAE NWAN company out
of the midwest US somewhere.  It will kick in when Ford's
runs put in 5 years...it is from this company that they
tried to get me to buy a several thousand dollar, 100k
mile package that covered more of the utems I will lose
from Ford's Bumperto Bumper plan after 3 years...but both
of these plans have complaints at the BBB citing denial
of claims because if paperwork they claimed to nit have
receieved or denials due to being 12 days katebon an oil
change.)

What you might not understand is my skepticism regarding
t Ford dealership's honesty and motivation to sell me a
thoroughly sound vehicle vs just selling me the vehicle
they got for me, figuring if it had, say, a leak
somewhere Ford warranty would cover the repairs--indeed,
they would get to provide the service and be reimbursed
for it.  Even though I would not be out money I would be
out time and bother, but the dealership would have more
business. That is why I wondered about a pre purchase
inspection from not-Ford dealer.

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{Wheels.26.166}: 89 Mazda 323, 19 Ford T.Connect {patrice} Mon, 19 Nov 2018 22:56:47 CST (28 lines)

I liked your article, Jil, but what you call bug eyed
older model, i call the better looking.  I dearly wished
I could have found a low mile 2013 cargo that had the
recall engine work done, and found one near me, but the
distance and shipping, coupled with mechanical
unreliability in engine AND transmission on those in a
cargo van (so many have been abused by carrying too much
weight and towing wiyhout the factory tiw package which
includes a transmission cooler) made it an unattractive
option.

I liked the height of the 2010-2013 TCs-- a full 5 inches
taller.  While I cannot stand in 54", it is better than
49. And I actually am not a fan of the sleeker 'cookie
cutter' styling of post 2014 but I accept it.  If they
couldnmake it look like a VW breadloaf I would be more
thrilled ;-p

Still, 2019 brought the first real changes since the
2014-18 models, so I look forward to seeing how they play
out.

I understand your concern about the road noise in the
them that you tested--that might have more to do with it
being a cargo van like I will be getting, as the
passenger van with 7 seats in the back was a very quiet
ride ... but I was warned the empty cargo model would not
have the insulation and seating to dampen sound.

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{Wheels.26.167}: Jil {rabbit} Tue, 20 Nov 2018 07:35:57 CST (26 lines)

<<What you might not understand is my skepticism regarding
t Ford dealership's honesty and motivation to sell me a
thoroughly sound vehicle vs just selling me the vehicle
they got for me, figuring if it had, say, a leak
somewhere>>

There are always a couple of bad apples, but overall, that's not how
dealerships work. The vehicle comes in new from the factory and is
sold that way, the same way as if you go to a store and buy any other
type of merchandise. It's been quality-checked at the factory before
it's sent out. They don't do an inspection on it beforehand as they
would on a used vehicle because it hasn't been used.

They got you another vehicle in what's known as a "dealer trade." Not
every dealership has every vehicle in stock. If they order you one,
you have to wait for the truck to get into the system, get built, and
then get shipped over, and that can take months.

So they check around (the factory maintains a database) to see if
someone else nearby has the vehicle you want in stock. They then do a
"trade," either paying for the vehicle or sending over a model they
have that the other dealer wants.

The cargo van is noisier than the passenger van. It's still not going
to be as quiet as most cars, but the seats and insulation soak up a
lot of sound.

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{Wheels.26.168}: 89 Mazda 323, 19 Ford T.Connect {patrice} Tue, 20 Nov 2018 22:45:30 CST (11 lines)

I understood most of that already, but it is reassuring
to hear that it is normal/routine/no red flags.

And I am less likely to notice even the road noise in the
empty cargo van, as I am used to a base model 1989 Mazda
323 hatchback as my point of comparison, not a big old
Cadillac (my Mazda still gets 32 mpg highway, but it
really is a tuna can with wheels and seat belts ;-)

Next time I post I will have the van and post a selfie
with it!

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{Wheels.26.169}: Jil {rabbit} Wed, 21 Nov 2018 07:34:55 CST (1 line)

Cool!

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