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General Photography Discussion


{Photography.55.1575}: Donald Dozier {donaldpd} Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:34:58 CDT (6 lines)

From the way you were talking I just thought perhaps you lived where they
weren't.  Failing that if you want to go where this is true you can visit
the place of my roots.  Some started over the hills before the Revolution
and several more came after with land grants.  Currituck County, in the
extreme Northeast corner.  There may be a dozen houses with those luxuries
in all of Currituck.  If that's too good you can ease on into Dismal Swamp.


{Photography.55.1576}: Glen Marks {wotan} Sat, 08 Nov 2014 15:12:34 CST (4 lines)

Upcoming tv program featuring author of new bio on Dorothea Lange:



{Photography.55.1577}: TJ {tj2} Fri, 21 Nov 2014 21:37:43 CST (HTML)

I have finally (after resisting for a long time) started to learn Adobe Photoshop Lightroom. I started downloading trial version with v.1.0 years ago, but never did anything with them. the current version is 5.7.

For anyone not up to speed, it's a cataloging database and raw file developing program. Despite the Photoshop in the name, it's not the Photoshop, and you still need that to do anything requiring layers, like compositing, changing backgrounds, opening eyes, switching heads, photo restoration and that kind of stuff.

In case anyone isn't aware, raw files are the proprietary formats that camera manufacturers use in their DSLRs and some other high end cameras. They contain all the image data that the sensor is capable of recording, so they are what you use when you want to get the highest quality image possible. But they are like film negatives inasmuch as until they are developed, there is no picture there, just a jpeg preview. Lightroom adds metadata to the original raw file and then exports a jpeg to a disk, social media, a lab for prints, etc. The original is never changed, just has metadata appended, and only copies are exported, so your "negatives" remain untouched.

The more I get into it, the more I find to like. Like any software, it has its admirers who say it's "all you'll ever need" to do professional quality photography. That's a stretch, in my opinion, but if you have a decent camera and a modicum of skill in the craft; if you can get a pretty well-exposed and composed image to start with, you can probably skip Photoshop. I won't abandon it however, I depend on it too much.

The cataloging part is what I am going to be getting into the most. I have 15- or 20,000 frames that are just sort of thrown on disk, and organizing them is taking all my time right now. All this is my hobby at this point; I'll probably never do anything with most of them...


{Photography.55.1578}: Jil {rabbit} Sat, 22 Nov 2014 10:46:23 CST (6 lines)

I need someone to teach me Photoshop. Trying to wade through it, even
on a "simplified" version, I find it a very annoying and complicated
piece of crap.

The most common thing you'll hear when I'm trying to use it is, "The
person who wrote this software should be shot and pissed on."


{Photography.55.1579}: TJ {tj2} Sat, 22 Nov 2014 12:54:16 CST (HTML)

I've been using Photoshop since v. 2.5, the first one for Windows. With the CC stuff they have apparently changed the way they number the versions, but I believe it is now v.14 or thereabouts. It was a lot simpler when I started with it, and I was 20 years younger.

I started with Adobe's Classroom in a Book. I went through the whole thing, step by step and in two weeks I could do basic stuff. Later on, when I actually started doing retouching professionally, I took evening classes at the county vocational college. They were on v. 5.0 at the time, with 5.5 only a short time off. I took the basic, intermediate and advanced classes, and found that I didn't really have all that much to learn. Basically it amounted to "tips and tricks," and workflows developed by professionals.

Most of what I do today I do the same way I did ten or fifteen years ago, even though I know there are more advanced ways of doing it now. I don't use layer masks much, I still just make selections using the lasso or pen tools, and I use the Quick Mask a lot, just like I did 15 years ago. I'm amazed that it's even still in there, but I'm glad it is because I use it all the time. I do use the layer adjustment masks all the time, because they are non-destructive. If you over-correct or change your mind, just re-edit the mask or even delete it and you haven't changed your original.

I don't envy anyone starting out today and trying to learn Photoshop because of the complexity that just wasn't there in the 90s, but you should be aware that at that time, everyone was saying the same things about it. "Too much in there;" "Bloatware," etc. If it was too hard for someone in 1998, I would like to transport that person to 2015 and show him what he's up against.

The good news is that no one uses everything in Photoshop; you can just learn the parts that you need to use. I have never opened the 3D stuff, for instance, because I have no use for it. The script features are great I guess, but I don't know how to write a script, and I have never felt a burning need to learn. Even Actions, used to automate things that you do over and over or to many images at once, and which I know how to make, I never use. There are some incredibly complicated ways to do things that just don't make sense for the average photographer to be involved with.

I don't know if Classroom in a Book exists anymore or if it does, if it is any good. There are multitudes of classes on dealing with Photoshop by various experts, some whom work for Adobe and some who have been independents for many years but work with Adobe, like Deke McClelland. Those are paid subscriptions.

There are YouTube videos galore on the subject, but on YouTube you don't always get the brightest bulbs. Adobe has some videos by people who work for them like Julianne Kost, who are very good but usually make short videos on specific features, and won't be of much help unless you can pretty well navigate the program already. I don't know if there is any kind of comprehensive basic-to-expert class on YouTube.

There are lots of books on Photoshop, it must be the most written about software program in history.

Or try a local community college for classes.

Depending on how you intend to use it, maybe you don't need Photoshop. Maybe you can get by with Photoshop Elements, which a lot of people use for basic edits. It has layers, has it's own included "Organizer," which is basically a browser, can open raw files, comes with Adobe Camera Raw, the same raw file developer that is in Lightroom, and has a lot of support on the Web. It can write .psd files, so if you send files created in Elements to someone, they will have no trouble opening them in Photoshop.

They don't upgrade it, you have to just buy the latest version when it comes out. The good news is that is usually less than $100 US. It doesn't have all the latest and greatest tools that Photoshop has, and it can't process 16-bit color, but it works with Lightroom too, and so might be an option.


{Photography.55.1580}: TJ {tj2} Sat, 22 Nov 2014 13:00:56 CST (6 lines)

Above I said that Elements comes with Adobe Camera Raw, "the same raw
file developer that is in Lightroom."

That is not entirely accurate; the version included with elements is
older than the most current and has fewer controls, but you can still
open and edit raw files with it.


{Photography.55.1581}: Jil {rabbit} Sat, 22 Nov 2014 13:49:05 CST (4 lines)

The toughest thing for me learning Photoshop through its "help"
function is that it assumes I already have a grasp of the thing. It
doesn't help to tell me how to use layers if you don't bother to tell
me exactly what a layer is.


{Photography.55.1582}: TJ {tj2} Sat, 22 Nov 2014 15:08:53 CST (14 lines)

I have seen a layer described as a cellophane cover over the original
picture. You can now draw or paint on the cellophane and the
underlying image shows through, but is never changed or damaged. You
can have as many layers of "cellophane" as you wish, and you will see
what they are doing, but none will actually affect the others or the
base image until you tell Photoshop to merge them.

An adjustment layer is a layer that just contains information on how
to change the underlying layers, but doesn't actually <i>make</i> a
change until you merge it. You use that kind of layer for correcting
color, brightness, contrast and the like. There was once a limit to
how many layers you could have, but I think that's gone, or so high
that you'll never reach it. If you like, I can post an abbreviated


{Photography.55.1583}: Glen Marks {wotan} Mon, 24 Nov 2014 03:18:13 CST (8 lines)

According to this recent article:

- All the aesthetic preoccupations of Modernism are present: geometry,
scale, cunning crops and heavy shadows. As are the motifs: stair wells,
roof tops and all the products of a machine-tooled world.


{Photography.55.1584}: Sony Cybershot HX-20V {kitty} Sun, 07 Dec 2014 09:45:14 CST (HTML)

I woke up to a coolness this morning. I got a message via Flickr:

Request for use of Pinus ponderosa bonsai picture

Hello Kitty,

I'm running a small business for seed rarities in Germany.

For one of my seed cards I'm looking for a picture of a Pinus ponderosa bonsai and found your picture "".

So I would like to ask for the possibility to use this picture for printing our seed cards and advertising our seeds on the web?

Certainly I would print a copyright remark with your name on all our seed cards and also in the web wherever we place the picture to show our product.

Best regards


My response was "I'm flattered. Help yourself."


{Photography.55.1585}: Sony Cybershot HX-20V {kitty} Sun, 07 Dec 2014 09:47:27 CST (HTML)

The picture is ""


{Photography.55.1586}: Coyote {coyote} Sun, 07 Dec 2014 15:09:02 CST (1 line)

Wow, how perfect for you!


{Photography.55.1587}: Glen Marks {wotan} Mon, 08 Dec 2014 17:16:02 CST (12 lines)

(Concerning the following which I posted earlier, I only just noticed
that I forgot to put quotes around the link):

According to this recent article:

- All the aesthetic preoccupations of Modernism are present: geometry,
scale, cunning crops and heavy shadows. As are the motifs: stair
wells, roof tops and all the products of a machine-tooled world.



{Photography.55.1588}: Jil {rabbit} Tue, 30 Dec 2014 18:25:30 CST (37 lines)

Those of you who know Annie from this forum - she has been ill with
cancer and is now in the hospital, and it is almost over.

I met her once, and she would send me fruitcake at Christmas. Such a
lovely, lovely lady.

The note below is from her daughter (Marian was Annie's real name).

Hello all.  I am sorry to send out a blanket email.   This is
Elizabeth, Marian's daughter.  Mum went into hospital Christmas
morning.  We had a family meeting yesterday, with Barbara present
from Nova Scotia, and were informed that Mum has days, perhaps a few
weeks to be with us.  She is very calm now, knowing that Barry will
be taken care of when she is gone.  We have arranged for him to come
to Dundas to stay at a retirement home there.  Originally the two of
them were to move so they could be closer to me.  Now that things
have changed, I'll get Barry over there when he's ready.

She has also been assured by the doctor and me that her passing will
be easy.  With all the drugs available now, the nurses have
everything at their fingertips to give her for any type of symptom.
This has eased her mind, as it must be very frightening to know the
end is coming,  the "what ifs" take over and one's  imagination can
get out of hand.

I would ask that you all pass on the news to the town and the cafe
as you people have been such wonderful correspondants.  Also, to
Barry's friends, please keep in touch by mail, as he is not using
the computer.  His eyesight is very poor now.  I'll be staying with
Barry for the duration, and will check mum's mail if you wish to
contact me here.  Just write in the subject line Elizabeth and I
will be sure to check.

Thank you all. I will be in touch.

Marian's favourite youngest daughter, Elizabeth


{Photography.55.1589}: Donald Dozier {donaldpd} Wed, 31 Dec 2014 10:56:56 CST (1 line)

How sad.  Such a sweetheart.  Pray that it will be swift and easy.


{Photography.55.1590}: Coyote {coyote} Wed, 31 Dec 2014 13:38:32 CST (3 lines)

What a huge loss. <tears>

{*{*{Peaceful passage and a beautiful afterlife for our dear Annie}*}*}


{Photography.55.1591}: TJ {tj2} Fri, 02 Jan 2015 22:42:28 CST (1 line)

So sad. Such a wonderful lady...


{Photography.55.1592}: Pictou {pictou} Mon, 12 Jan 2015 10:49:58 CST (21 lines)

Mark Still posted in Nook this morning--

"Hello, everybody.

I just now received a call from Elizabeth, Annie's
daughter, to give me the news of Annie's passing.

Up until the past two weeks, Annie & I played the
word game Lexulous almost constantly. She would
sometimes apologize to me saying that her pain meds
were interfering with her love of the words. I always
responded by saying that I was glad that she wanted
to maintain contact.

I met Annie and her husband about 9 or 10 years ago
when they were here for a conference or a concert.
We had a very nice meal in Chinatown. I feel very
privileged to have met them both.

Annie was a good friend. If I had never found the
Utne Cafe I would not have met her."


{Photography.55.1593}: Donald Dozier {donaldpd} Mon, 12 Jan 2015 10:56:17 CST (1 line)

She's pain free now.  Such a sweetheart.


{Photography.55.1594}: Coyote {coyote} Mon, 12 Jan 2015 14:44:40 CST (3 lines)

Somehow I knew I'd find news of her passing when I checked in today. I
enjoyed Annie's contributions to the Cafe so much. I think I'll go
have a cry now. Thanks for the note, Pictou.


{Photography.55.1595}: Jak King {jakking49} Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:04:58 CST (3 lines)

I had forgotten until I loaded my blossoms image today, that loading
into the Cafe dulls down colour by a noticeable amount. Not sure why
that should, though now I recall it from the old days.


{Photography.55.1596}: TJ {tj2} Sun, 15 Feb 2015 08:40:45 CST (1 line)

Posting from e.g. Flickr seems to work better.


{Photography.55.1597}: Jak King {jakking49} Sun, 15 Feb 2015 13:56:39 CST (4 lines)

Thanks TJ.

FYI, I have begun posting some of my non-photographic works at


{Photography.55.1598}: Steve Lacey {masked} Tue, 25 Oct 2016 19:06:04 CDT (9 lines)

Mayhap someone can offer a suggestion here. I want to put together a
photo album (remember photo albums?) of our recent trip to England and
the Isle of Man. For this purpose I want to take a screen-shot out of
a video but I can't figure out how to do it. Thing is, I got some
footage of a wild wallaby, as well as some photos. The photos suck,
being all blurry, but the video has some frames of the wallaby that
are clean and sharp.  The video was taken on a small Sony Handicam; I
downloaded it onto my desktop. I can't find any combination of clicks
or menu helps or anything that will help. Anyone have any suggestions?


{Photography.55.1599}: Frank Vehafric {fvehafric} Fri, 28 Oct 2016 11:20:23 CDT (3 lines)

If you use windows you should be able to do this in microsoft movie
maker. If it didn't come with your operating system it's a free
download form microsoft.


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